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Today on Straight From the Harp, we're talking about what many people only associate to billionaires and private islands, sexual abuse and exploitation, and all the cover-ups that protect the powerful people. But while we're focused just on the Epstein file, there are survivors in our own homes, in our churches, in our workplaces, and in our schools, our neighborhoods where we live. they're going through the same things, not at the hands of billionaires, but at the hands of family members, bosses, pastors, and even friends. To help us understand what's happening to the survivors of everyday life and how we can respond with justice, compassion, and real action, I am honored to be joined by Brandy Williams, Director of Education at MOXA, the Metropolitan Organization to Counter Sexual Abuse in Kansas City. And it's really uh interesting because when someone talked to me and I was looking for someone to talk to me about part two of the Epstein Fowl, they said, have you tried moxa? So I wanna welcome Brandy Williams to our table and we're gonna talk about what's happening here at home in our own backyards with people that are not so powerful, but the hurt and the abuse is the same. So I'm gonna start with really a quick question. Brandy, thank you for being here. Before we go into the topic, can you share just a bit about how you and what you do at MOXA? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for inviting us and thank you for having me here this afternoon. MOXA is a rape crisis center in Kansas City. We've been around for 50 years. So yeah, it's a long time. years? Yeah, 50 years is a long time. So we provide a host of services for survivors of sexual assault and for their families. um So my role primarily as the Director of Education is to make sure that the services that we're providing in kindergarten through 12th grade are continued to be age appropriate. And we talk to kids about body safety in kindergarten through fifth grade. We also start to introduce concepts like boundaries, consent, sexual harassment within fifth grade. And those skills just kind of build up as we go into middle school and high school. So we're trying to provide a lot of education for the youth and also for adults. that's, mean, that's really good. I want, know, when you talk about the youth, ah I relate very much so. So I want to know what personally, you know, what led you personally to work in this field? Because this is not a field you grow up thinking, when I grow up, I want to be educating sexual abuse. What led you here? Yeah, absolutely. So I've been in the field of child sexual abuse, domestic violence prevention for over 20 years. That's the only job that I've ever had. And I just kind of fell into it, just like you fall into things, right? undergrad at MU, not really knowing what I wanted to do as a psychology major, and then following and starting to work with the Division of Family Services, and then just continuing in with nonprofits at multiple levels since then, always with the focus on child and family safety. So what does the, you know, like a week at MOXA look like? Your uh typical week. at MOCSA, what does that look like? Yeah, well, I mean, obviously, like every other organization, weeks and days and hours change swiftly. My job is, mean, kind of boring in the sense of I'm just the over here trying to manage grants and programs and making sure that my staff have what they need. But the staff are the ones that are out there doing the work primarily, like in the schools, talking to the students. In my role, I like to think of it as overseeing and making sure that they're able to do the work that they need to do and that they're also able to get the support that they need when they're not currently working. um So a lot of ins and outs, but mostly a lot of meetings, opportunities like this. Well, and I do want to bring up, I want to kind of connect the Epstein to everyday abuse. uh When we talk about the Epstein files, this is our Epstein part two. And when we decided to do this, one ah was because I think it's something that we never talk about. We have uh a 50 year old uh organization that, know, normally this type of thing is very private. So it's not something you're going to promote. There's nothing glamorous about this, this type of work that you're doing. But when you think about the extreme wealth and private jets and the huge profiles, high profile names, the patterns of the grooming and secrecy and the silencing show up in ordinary homes too. Because to my understanding, when we were following the Epstein file, you had an accomplice that her job was to recruit. And in the recruiting, oh it's almost the same. you uh coax people in or young people in with things and then you silence them. And so, from your experience, how similar to are the dynamics of abuse in the cases like Epstein and what's happening with just everyday people? Yeah, sure. So sexual violence by nature is silent, right? The danger happens in the silence and it's meant to create shame. and guilt and confusion, coercion, those types of things when you think about grooming, right? So all of those things are still there regardless of how much money the perpetrator may have or not have. And sexual abuse and sexual violence is non-discriminatory. It impacts and it can impact everybody. So, I mean, can you tell me kind of some of the elements that you see over and over again? rather it's a billionaire or a neighborhood coach or, you know, rather it's a pastor or a family member. So there's going to be power and control. Power and control is a typical dynamic when it comes to sexual violence. And, you know, in those examples that you use, right, a coach, for example, you've got a, you know, an athlete who's looking to extend their skills and move on to different levels. Well, if their coach is their guide and the person that they trust, they're gonna lean into whatever that looks like for them. But that's a power and control dynamic. Sexual violence is not about sex, it's not about love, it's about power and it's about control. And typically someone has a hands up over somebody else to be able to control what that power looks like. And honestly, I can see that. guess you never really think about the power and control of things, but when you think about uh rape, I mean, it is a form of rape, whether uh it's uh violent or otherwise, when you take power over someone else's body, mind, soul, you're basically taking out of control their options or their decision-making. And so ah that's very interesting that, you know, we never really look at the power and control. And I think that's another way, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the power works, where the person is silenced, not always by the shame, but by the power of the other person. Sure. And also what that other person might mean to them, right? Oh, yeah. Most of us, if there's sexual assault that's occurring, I think the statistic is like 80 % of us will know the person that's causing us harm. And I'm going to get vulnerable here. I can say I understand that. as a kid, a young kid, around eight years old, the power that controlled me was a family member, a relative that was very close to the family. yes, I understand that because that's somebody you trust and you believe in and then you don't know what else to do. uh Some of the listeners, um this still feels very rare, like it doesn't really happen. uh Like sometimes that happens over there, but it does not in our circle or in our group of people. Can you help us understand in real numbers how uh widespread sexual violence is or abuse is in the US? Yeah, sure. So statistically, I think the stats now are One in three girls and one in six boys will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. So basically when I walk into a room, I assume that there are multiple survivors in that room, no matter where I am all the time. Oh my God. It's a very, it's very prevalent. Oh my God. And those are the ones that we know that have reported. So there's a, there's a number of people that choose never to report, never to disclose. So the numbers are really high. That is a very, very high number because three women in this room and at least one of us is a survivor. And we know that I am one and it could be more than one. that's, and I was expecting you to give me numbers, but it is, it's something to kind of think about. I mean, really think about, you never know who you're in the room with. I go to a lot of events and one out of three of the women in the event, besides myself, is a survivor. And then if you're looking at the men in the room as well, one out of six, that's a huge number. What do we need to know about children and teens? How often are they experiencing this kind of thing? Well, I mean, I think, I don't want to sound like an old lady, but this day at age, like teenagers have access to things that I didn't have access to when I was a teenager, right? Just the social media alone, the technology alone, the... online impact that that has. So we go into schools, we go into middle schools and high schools and are talking to kids about what their experiences are, but also providing them with the language and the understanding around how some of this is not okay. especially when think about relationships, whether it's a platonic relationship or a romantic relationship, what's healthy, what's unhealthy, um where are your boundaries and also the understanding of what consent is. and how can you hold a boundary and be okay with it, right? Because oftentimes we're worried about being nice or worried about hurting someone's feelings or worried about how we are showing up in spaces. But we try to provide them with education and also language to be able to hold that boundary for themselves and recognize what it is in order to help prevent sexual violence from continuing. Well, and then when I think about teenagers, especially teenagers with all the access to things that we were not privy to, ah and then the pressure ah that they received through music and movies and just even the social media. there is kind of a fine line between sexual abuse and what people perceive to be consensual. And so when we think about our teenagers, what do you guys talk to say, and I don't want to say what do you talk to them about because I don't want to violate anything, but ah how do you approach them to think about the things that they, the decisions that they make or the predicaments they find themselves in? uh and knowing the difference. Sure. So I think it comes right back to the language and the understanding, making sure that we have the same language and same understanding about what words mean. I find that that's very important. So when I say consent, we're talking about an enthusiastic yes, both verbal and nonverbal. So we're talking to students and adults too about what that means. If I give you, if I say yes to one thing, that doesn't mean that that's a yes forever. That means I can take it away. So that, I think even that understanding and knowledge is huge because consent, know, it's just like, oh yes, well, it could be yes and it could be yes today, no tomorrow. And so I think allowing them to have that understanding then empowers them or all of us to be able to use that when we need it. You know, a lot of times, and I know that we have, you know, some things that we talk about, but you did talk about like one out of six uh male uh are sexually abused. And I think that's something that when we talk about sexual abuse, especially in our homes and in our households, we tend to just look at it being a woman or a female or a young girl. But can you kind of a little bit elaborate on the fact that there are young men that are sexually abused and some of the things ah that you can recognize in someone that's being abused, sexually abused as an adult, seeing a child. Sure, yeah. So, I mean, I think that it goes back to what we consider gender norms, that these things can't happen to boys or men, ah but that they can happen to girls or women. And like I said before, sexual violence or sexual abuse doesn't discriminate. It can happen to anyone, regardless of your sex, your gender, your race, any of those things. um I think what's harder is that in our society, it might feel harder for boys to disclose that something's happening to them. Because boys are not supposed to cry. Boys are supposed to be strong. All of those things that we've all grown up in this. Heterorimorbidant society or this rape culture society, we all have learned the same messages. It's really hard to unlearn those messages. Yeah. I know I want to throw something else out there. Because I think about, I've had conversations with people about today's music and videos and how sexually explicit they are. we have young, I mean, young, young, it's elementary school uh kids listening and knowing the songs and the moves to those. Would you say that they also play a role in uh the sexual violence that happens in our country or in our communities? um I would argue that even when I was growing up, the music was pretty inappropriate. know what I mean? I think I don't know necessarily that music or lyrics or videos is ultimately the problem. I think the disconnect is having the conversations with our children or with adults or whoever, right? It's the communication. Just because I'm listening to this song doesn't mean that it's ever anybody's... People can't harm me, right? Just because I like this rap music or this song or whatever the lyric is. It's not an invitation. It's not an invitation to cause harm. And so I think that we need to disconnect from that thinking. One does not mean the other. It's not the same thing. Thank you for saying that. And the reason I say that is because I've heard several, several times on several fronts that ah a lot of times women are sexually abused because of how they dressed or how they present in public. And ah that is not an open invitation for you. to take advantage of me because of a choice that I make for myself. Absolutely. Thank you for saying that. So how often is the predator someone, the victim knows? How, know, statistically, a partner, a family member, a pastor, supervisor, friend, I mean, how often does that happen? Sure. Yeah. I think, you know, about 80 % or so is what we estimate as far as statistically. 80 % of survivors know the person that caused them harm. you're a child, that number is higher. If you think about the reason why, it's because if you're a kid, you're around adults all the time. It's not, know, right? Like people are supposed to be taking you to school, watching you after school, you're going to after school programs, you're in sports. So you are always around adults and adults create safety. That's what they're supposed to do. So if you're thinking about kids, obviously then those numbers go up if it's someone that they, likely that there's someone that they know. For adults, it's very similar. Sexual abuse, it's a silent kind of crime. It's often someone that you know, whether you know them super well or whether they're an acquaintance, maybe you know you have mutual friends. The likelihood that it's someone you know is very high because otherwise, how does someone get close enough to you? This idea of someone jumping out of the bushes, stranger danger. Does harm come to you from strangers? Yes, absolutely it can. But it's more likely going to be someone that you know that has created some type of harm. And it's someone that knows your patterns, knows your uh personality. think uh that's good someone that maybe you've built some trust in. Mainly, I think that is a good analogy that it's somebody that you built trust in. uh That's the person that's going to take advantage of you. I want to think about what are our survivors going through right now today? I think about the Epstein file and I think about some of the other uh sexual ah information that has come out over the last few years and prominent people that have gone to prison and women have carried, and I'll say women because that's Bangley who have come out. ah There's been a couple of guys here lately though. But they've carried these burdens for 20, 30. There was one lady in um one of the cases, 40 years, that they carry that. What are survivors that have not even acknowledged it out loud? What are they going through? are, once they do, what have you heard in their stories about what they suffered for a period of time? Well, you know, everybody's response to trauma is going to be different. And I definitely can't speak to how all survivors feel. I can name that oftentimes when there are like high profile cases, if they're in the news or on TV or, you know, social media things, we know that that could be a trigger for survivors. um And it could create maybe an increase in some of their trauma symptoms where before they'd been able to manage them, right? um It could create sometimes an increase in people calling the crisis line or support line to receive support. um so oftentimes when there are these larger scale stories that are coming out, we might see an uptick in our crisis line calls of people calling and just kind of needing a little bit more support and guidance in that. But I like to say everybody's experience is different and everybody... experiences trauma differently. And so there's no one or wrong way to show that you have been traumatized. I think sometimes we get in our heads that, you if someone's not crying or if they're not, you know, if they're not hysterical. Yeah. Yeah. And that goes up to, it segues into the next question is how does a person, that person that's out there right now that might be dealing with uh sexual abuse and then having to be in the presence of their abuser like every day, you know, uh I'm sure that there has to be trauma behind that and dealing with uh that type of trauma. Maybe, you know, I think about when we would have family dinners, you know, holidays, having to look at this person and how it made me feel and how I wanted to, you know, like shy away from the family. uh What does it look like? know, do you, have you ever heard someone talk about what it looked like to them? to have to deal with that day after day. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a level of ways that we protect ourselves when we feel like we're in harm, right? And so that might look like disassociation. That might look like I'm gonna just sit over here by this adult because I know that if I stay right here, no one's gonna come get me. It could be as you're getting older, avoidance. So there's no one way, right? Like it could look all kinds of ways. I think it comes to when we talk about to your point about like if there are survivors right now listening that are still in the hands of maybe their perpetrator or something is still happening to them, safety looks different for different people. And I think that you have to be flexible and open around what that safety might look like. So one of the reasons that I really wanted to do this show, ah not only to express that you can't survive this. but also to open doors in the eyes of people that might be right around someone that is being sexually abused. there normally are those red flags or signs that you can see. And one of the main places I've met someone who, for many years, I didn't realize that the church that they went to, their youth pastor was sexually abusing them. And church is a place that you grow up thinking that's a place to go, that's a safe place, that's a healing place, but it can also be a place of harm. And so I guess, you know, what are some of the things that you would say that might help us to recognize someone that may need, especially a youth, you know, a young person, how could we maybe identify that without you know, really pressing it, because you could be wrong. You could definitely be wrong, but how do we approach it where maybe someone is waiting on someone to say, I see you and I'm here for you? I think that is just mostly in showing up consistently and being a trusting adult, because we can't assume or know what's going on unless someone tells us directly. But you can always be a safe person. You can show up consistently to whatever that kiddo or those that adult needs, you can have open and honest conversations with them. You can talk to them about the things that are important to them. Because that again creates a level of trust and understanding. some kids don't disclose. They don't disclose ever. And oftentimes, if there is a disclosure that's being made, it could have been accidental. It could have been that, oh, I told my best friend, but then maybe his mom overheard or whatever. um But I think it's about how you can create relationships and community with individuals to be able to show that you are a safe person. Well, and I will say this. One of the things that scares young people about uh sharing, especially with adults in authority, uh adults that have an obligation like your school guidance council or your principal or your teacher, who are obligated to report any such things, ah the ideal that I wanted to stop, but I don't want to be taken out of my home. ah What do we do? How do we get through to them to even get to a point where maybe it's not the parents' fault, maybe the parents haven't recognized it, haven't seen it, before we take them out of the home, how do we... work with the system to say, let's bring the parent in and have a conversation and say, this is happening in your house. Yeah. Well, I mean, think systems is a whole different level, right, of a conversation. And also the Children's Division doesn't want to take kids out of the home. don't think so. That's not the goal. Yeah. And I think that when kids do disclose, it's really important to give them that informed consent. So thank you for telling me this. I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm gonna have to talk to some other people about this to make sure that you're safe. So if you're communicating with the kiddo about what the next steps are, that right there is probably something that they've not had happen to them before. So it's all about in the open communication, the authenticity and allowing them some choice if you can. Yeah, I just try to think about the unintentional harm that... that can sometimes be caused. And he just made that clear. You you really need to let them know upfront that, you know, I want to make this a place, a safe place for you. And I want to make sure when you're out of my presence, you're being safe too. It's not to harm you. It's not to harm your family. But if we want to get to the bottom of it and stop it, we need to make sure that we do everything to make sure you're safe. So that's, I mean, that's totally, I mean, it's the right thing. So there's barriers to reporting and seeking help. There really are. And I think that uh our systems are so crowded right now with so many things that are happening. uh It is really hard. So tell me more about how MOXA has uh been a remover of some of those barriers, a place where you have a hotline that they can call into. How is that uh a helpful spot for someone? Sure, yeah, absolutely. So at MOXA, we are very much, um we work under trauma-informed care principles, and we also are survivor-led. So survivors can call us on that 24-7 crisis line or support, crisis and support line. We've kind of changed a little bit of the wording on that. Anybody can call that number. You don't have to be in crisis to call. um you could be calling because you have a question. You could be calling because maybe you suspect somebody else has been harmed in some way. But ultimately, that's the first course of action. So if anyone's looking for support or services, they're going to call that crisis line and support. And we also work with systems. So we have an advocacy department that has worked very closely with law enforcement, with our prosecutors' offices, with our local hospitals. so that everybody's on the same page about what it means to be trauma informed. We do a lot of education when it comes to law enforcement. For example, the police academy, all of the police academy, are they cadets? I don't even know what the is. Police academy cadets. know, Moxler goes in and does training with those new incoming officers. Advocates are paired with detectives that are in the sex crimes unit. We have been working really hard at those relationships because what it does is if a survivor does want to file a police report, they can call that crisis and support number and we will meet them at the law enforcement station. We will meet them at the hospital. Anytime someone comes in for a sexual assault exam, we're called to show up um because we want to be there for them when they need the support, even if we're just sitting there. Even if it's just that someone that you don't know, it's someone that you don't have to over explain yourself to. It's just, it's support. And that means that can mean the world to someone who just needs help taking that first step. We also support them if they don't want to report. Cause not everybody wants to report. The systems are not safe for everybody. People have negative experiences with the systems and that they don't have to report in order to get services. So. That's important because sometimes in the first two times or a couple of times, I may not report, but as long as I'm getting the supports, eventually I may decide I need the help and I want to go outside of just calling and getting that verbal support or some resources, but actually reporting. And I think that's a great idea. And I think that's great what you're doing. So what can regular people who just, know, the crazy thing is, We don't realize until you gave me those numbers you don't think about ah the the sexual abuse that happens in the homes in the churches in the workplaces unless it's happening to you or someone that you know and 90 % of the time if it is happening we regular people and I won't say we because I have a different perspective but most regular people don't get involved or even think about it until you see the Epstein files or things like that and then you become aware. But what can the everyday person that's going to work or working in the church or oh the neighbor who's watched the change in someone in their neighborhood, what can they do? Well, we've got a couple of different programs that we do at MOCSA. I think part of it's education and the awareness, right? So being able to understand kind of what's going on, what child sexual abuse looks like, what sexual violence looks like, especially sexual harassment, because I think that's kind of where it starts in some places. um But we've got a program called, because I'm naming this because you had listed off a lot of different adults in different spaces. But Stores of Children is one of the programs that we are able to facilitate. It's through an agency called Darkness to Light. And it's a child abuse prevention program for adults. So it walks you through a little bit about what child sexual abuse is. um There are some videos and there's some conversation around like the topic and some kind of next steps and action items. At MOXA, we also have a prevention department. And so we have a program called... oh Awareness to Action, A2A, and it focuses on youth facing organizations and helping them create policies and procedures that allow more safety for kids. um So I think those are some kind of systemic and actual education pieces that we can encourage folks to do, um and those services are free. So I know that we will go into... I think one of my staff members went into a school and did stores of children with all the parents that came. Or into any type of organization, and we've done that many times. So that's one little key takeaway that people could look into. And I appreciate you saying you've done it with other organizations because I would love to be able to offer uh some training to our small business owners, ah especially through the chamber. Because I think it's important that, especially as a business owner, what is sexual harassment? What can, you know, some things that we say and do that we don't consider harassment may be harassing someone inadvertently. You don't know what that person has been through. So referring to an employee as hun or babe or, know, that uh may be harmless. in what you're saying to you, but to them, it could be something even bigger. So I'm really appreciating that. And I'd love to find out how the chamber can oh be a partner with MOXA. I think it's really, really important, not just for child abuse and sexual harassment, but also for adults uh and our teenagers. uh The workplace now, uh has a lot of teenagers and it's getting ready to be summertime and a lot of summer jobs are coming up for our youth. We have pro-ex students coming. I want to even make sure that my staff understands that, you know, we, this is a safe place for anyone that works here, but our words matter and how we handle our students. So if we uh were to, if there was somebody out here watching us today, What could they do? How can they reach out to MOCSA and get the resources or the help? Yeah, so the first thing I would say is, well, a couple of things. You can go to our website at moxa.org, and that's M-O-C-S-A dot org. You can call our support and crisis line, 816-531-0233. And that's kind of the first step, right? We also do... community education. So the website will kind of lead you through all of our different services and programs and also will connect you via email to different like whatever it is that you're looking for. um If you need a presentation in a school, can email us at the community ed email. So there's a lot of opportunity on the website and in our social media um pages on Instagram and Facebook to find ways to connect. So today, if we were to have conversation with our kids, And we know that a lot of children are being raised by grandparents or single parents. What are some of the conversations our caregivers should be having with our children at different ages about their body, about the anatomy and about boundaries? Sure. Yeah, that's a great question. And I can sit here and talk to you all day about that. I have three kids. They are quite old at this point. I say old because it makes me feel old. When they were little, I think they were probably like 18 months, two years old or so, I started telling them what their body parts were. I was like, this is the anatomical name for your body parts. I have two girls and a boy. And I would talk to them also about who safe adults were outside of me and their father. And I would also say, I would like name all mommy's best friends and they would name them because they would all be around. I use them as an example of if any of those people. or do something to your private parts that you don't like, or touch or do something to you that you don't like, it's okay for you to tell me. And they won't come back here. And they were like, okay. And so then I also allowed them to, if they didn't wanna give somebody a hug, okay, you don't have to hug them. So when you show that your words are matching your actions, then they start to understand and believe. And so then if something were to happen, they could come to me and say, this is going on. Even something with like my daughter or even knowing where your kids are at. So, you know, they're in daycare, right? Like you're not gonna throw them somewhere where they're gonna get harmed, right? But who do you know at the daycare? How close are you to their teachers? Who do you know that's in charge of that daycare? And my kids went to the same daycare for years. Shout out to Spectrum Station. them and... I became pretty close with the people that worked there, whether it was the teachers or whether it was the people in the front desk or the office, whatever. And there was a young man that started working in the daycare when my middle daughter was in pre-K. And I didn't vibe with this dude. I was like, I don't know what's going on. I see him asking my kid for hugs. I'm like, she doesn't need to hug you. You don't need to ask her for a hug. I said something and they talked to him about it. And then one day I picked her up and he chased her down to give her a piece of paper. And I looked at it and it was a drawing of her. It was a drawing of my child for all the braids in her hair, the barrettes, everything. And I took it home and showed her dad and I was like, tomorrow's gonna be a different day for me when I drop the kids off. And I basically said, I will pull my kids out of this daycare if you do not remove this man. And they did. because they knew, one, that that was completely inappropriate and outside the scopes and we've already had conversations. So it's that type of a thing that if, I don't wanna say that if I wasn't in this field, I wouldn't have had the same feeling, cause I would have, cause that was weird. But it's just an example of paying attention. Like when something doesn't feel okay. it's okay to lean into the fact that it doesn't feel okay. It's okay to ask questions and lean in with some curiosity, as I like to say, and try to figure out where that's coming from. um And then I sometimes still have regrets to this day, and this might be silly, but I was like, what's that man's name? Where did he go next? who, you know, like that type of thing. But I was just so, my intent was to make sure he wasn't in that space anymore. Absolutely. And you know, the funny thing is, we've seen it happen over and over again. We've seen someone who has been arrested for uh sexual abuse in a school, who came from another school, who was just let go because of the similar or same type of behavior. It just, they did not get arrested. And so if we are addressing it and following along to find out And follow the tracks, make sure that this person is not just being let go, but being removed from this space. I really appreciate that. And thank you for sharing that. You know, I'm a pastor of a church. And one of the things I'd like to bring up, you know, we do have the Safe Gathering that are, it's a uh platform that all of our ministry leaders have to go through if you're going to be working with children. or are elderly, you have to go through the safe gathering and get certified safe gathering. ah And there's been times that people were certified safe gathering and still got through the system, and maybe they just never got caught until afterwards. ah what are some of the safer policies or programs, youth programs, and then things that we can do like uh background checks and you know, uh two adult rules. What are some of the other things that we could put in place at my church? Because we're starting to grow and we're starting to put together a children's program and a youth program. And the one thing that I want to make sure of, and you can't, you know, obviously be a hundred percent sure of anything, but what are some of the safeguards that you would suggest for us? Yeah, I mean, I think if you're already doing the background checks and um have some policies around like conduct, I think those are always really important. So we also are never like left alone with students, for example, right? Like no one's going to be left alone with a kid. There has to be a school personnel person in there as well. And so those, that could be a good setup to start. Even when you're communicating with them outside of being in person. So even if like a kid sends an email, they have to send it to Like I have to tag in another adult at MOX for that email. But it could also be something that our prevention programming might be able to assist you with with that uh A2A. um And I can definitely get you some information about that. um I can't super speak to it. I know that it's a program that our prevention department has been utilizing and it could definitely, and that's what it's for. It's set up for organizations and agencies that are youth-facing. So yeah. Yeah, that's important. I also want to you know, can you explain bystander intervention? I mean and how an ordinary person can step in when they see something. Yeah, absolutely. So I like to call it bystander engagement. Mostly to take the little like the word of intervention like it feels like it's a little bit more harder. But when you think about engaging, I think about community, right? Like we're all in community together. I feel like we should be better in community together these days. But I think of bystander engagement as another level of being in community with one another in a way that creates safety. So it can be very simple, right? Like if you hear something or say something, you can do something. It could be that you can be like, hey, I just couldn't help but overhear you say this. Help me understand why you did that. Or... Checking in with the person who you think might be experiencing harm. Hey, are you okay? Do you need anything? Yeah. We talked to middle schoolers about bystander engagement. We talked to them about doing something they can interrupt, like maybe make a distraction, right? Say something silly or find somebody else to help. Like it doesn't have to be about you. Maybe you're gonna stand here and make sure that the person that you're concerned about is okay. But maybe you can give eye contact to the person you're with to go find somebody else to help. And so those are things that can kind of happen in the moment. I think that it's hard to, we feel like we can't get in the way, right? Like this isn't about me, this isn't my business. But if you bring it back to this idea that we are all in community together, it is your business. It's your business to make sure that your community is safe. it's also, we need to start holding perpetrators accountable. And that accountability can look lots of different ways. It doesn't always have to look like they got arrested and they're in jail because we know that that doesn't happen as often as we probably think it does. So how else can we hold them accountable? Oh, I see you. I see what you're doing and we're not gonna accept that behavior. That's accountability too. And most perpetrators don't want you to know. They do not want you to know. They don't want to know that somebody knows. I think that is a fear of theirs, bigger fear is that someone will find out. ah And so, what are some words of current things that we can say to survivors today? That one, you've survived this and maybe you haven't spoken out loud and maybe you never need to speak out loud, but how you may be feeling right now. ah What would we say to them? How do we tell them that it's not their fault, that they don't have to carry the burden of the perpetrator, it's theirs, it belongs to them? And what are words that we can give to them that will maybe free someone? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's not your fault is a good phrase, right? Because it's not. something, it can be simple things like, believe you. Thank you for telling me. I'm sorry that happened to you. um What do you need? How can I help? Because their choice was removed from them, right? So when you're able to provide an ability for someone else to have choice and get their autonomy back, just even simply asking them, like, what is it that you need? What do you want to do? And they may or may not know, but it's just that the option for them, creating more options and the, believe you. I mean, that's, believe you. You don't have to tell me all the details. I don't need to know that. I believe what you're telling me is true. I believe that your experience is true. Yeah. So I'm gonna ask a question that just came to mind. I promise you, it just came to mind. What about that person who knows that something is going on? And I'm gonna say they're in a relationship with their perpetrator. they're kind of caught between the rock and the hard place. How do we get through to them that it's not okay, ah that it's not your fault? Because I've learned down the line through someone else that they felt trapped. They felt that it was their fault. So they protected the perpetrator and this was family situation, where ah they also made the child, not the victim, but the... uh the perpetrator basically, you caused this. How do we release them from that burden of being between that rock and hard place trying to maybe hold on to family ah and having to carry that burden? Because that's also a generational thing when you go down the line of families from when it was okay to, you know, to beat your wife or to, you know, whatever it was that allowed the society, what do you say to that person to kind of release them to say, it's not okay and I believe you and I'm gonna do something for you? Yeah, I I think that it's about creating empathy for that person too, even when it might feel hard. Yeah. I always like to say, there's no really... good or bad choice, but there are always, there's consequences. And what's the consequence for holding onto something like that, that you know is happening, right? Like who is that impacting? Because it's negatively impacting the person experiencing harm, but it's also impacting the person that knows and isn't saying anything. And the onus of like, how do you create safety? um And I think that it's hard to show empathy sometimes for people when we have anger or animosity towards them or questioning like, how could you do that? But it's again about trying to find the human side of things. um And hopefully that could maybe help turn someone around to be able to make the disclosure. Brady, I want to thank you for so much, so much for sharing this. This was really important. Again, the Epstein Files was something that um was kind of like the final straw for me uh after seeing year after year prominent and very public uh figures that some of us knew and loved ah to come to this stage. And with the Epstein File, still, the survivors still are not getting their jest because we've got powerful people covering it up. But then I started thinking about what about us, the everyday survivor, the one that's maybe not surviving, the one that's going through it right now, and who is speaking up for them? Who is uh making, um voice to what's happening to those who are not being abused by a powerful person that they can't take to the courts and sue? ah Who is speaking up for them? Because the abuse uh has the same kind of pain. And whether you're rich or poor, whether you are a family member, whatever, it was important to me that we did a show that really spoke to where can I go? And so I'm gonna ask you again to tell our viewers, and look at that camera over there, and tell our viewers exactly. If you need help, if you want to reach out ah and get a resource, how would they do that? And then also, if you want to be, if you want to learn what to do to help, uh who do we contact? Sure, yeah, absolutely. So anyone can call our 24-hour crisis and support line. If you go to our website moxa.org, m-o-c-s-a.org, you will find all of our resources. Someone will be available to pick up the phone and talk with you, regardless of your circumstance, regardless of what time it is, regardless of if it's a holiday. We have staff answering that phone during the day, and we have our amazing volunteers answering those calls after hours. Mox is here to support you. Mox is here to support all survivors. It doesn't matter if this happened to you today, if it happened to you 20 years ago. We want you to know that we believe you. and we want to provide you with whatever support you need. If people are interested in kind of helping us out on our end, we definitely are accepting volunteers. We have volunteers that work our crisis line. They show up at the hospital for survivors. They go to help out in schools. They do a lot of our project aware education through kindergarten and fourth grade. We love our volunteers. It's actually, think, Volunteer Appreciation Week. So shout out to all of our MOXA volunteers this Come on now. Yes. And we also have some events. So we have our community luncheon, which is May 1st. So that's a nice way to get engaged and kind of understand a little bit about our agency and see some of our fundraising events. You can also, again, go to moxa.org if there's any donations or if you are a business and are interested in like a third party fundraising event, we've done stuff like that before, it's always an option. Also gonna plug our safe training, sexual assault free environment training for bars, restaurants, venues that serve alcohol ahead of the World Cup coming. We're trying to make sure that we get in front of people and talk to them a lot about what safety looks like, sexual harassment and the bystander engagement. So you hear that hospitality restaurant and food service again. If you didn't get all that, can always reach out to the Heartland Black Chamber of Commerce. I will have all that information. And I appreciate understanding. Volunteerism is very important. If we're able to go out and volunteer and be present for someone, that is really, really important. And then spread the word. know, spread the awareness that you've heard this. This will be on our website. This will be on our platforms. definitely now is the time for us to make the difference. For those of you who have been harmed, we see you. We really see you. And it's not too late, and you don't have to be silent. There's a place that you can trust, and it's never too late to speak out. For those of you who have looked away, now is the time for you to look closer ah in your homes, our churches, our schools, and in our workplaces. and choose to stand with survivors, not with silence. We want to thank you for joining us for this very important episode. I want to thank my sponsors, Kauffman uh Foundation, the Ewan Kauffman Foundation. ah I'd like to also thank our production team, which is also one of my sponsors, AGA Production. But most of all, I want to thank Moxon for stepping up and saying, yes, we had to go round and round to get to this. However, I don't want to end it here. I don't want you to think that we're just going to do a one and done. I think it's very, very important that we continue the dialogue and um the awareness speaking up for this because one episode is not going to change things, but one by one, maybe we will reach somebody. Again, thank you Brandy for coming. Thank you, Maksa. Thank you, AGA. And remember, always, always speak straight from the heart. Tell the truth. Be honest. and believe. Believe. Thank you.
